Episode 014: Dov Gordon – How to Get Ideal Clients When You’re Not the “Charismatic Guru” Type

In this episode, I discuss with Dov the reasons small business get stuck with marketing and sales tactics and what they need to do to rise above it. Dov works with service providers who don’t consider themselves the “charismatic type.” He talks about how to build a business without replicating the “fake Instagram” business model.

Dov Gordon helps consultants and experts get ideal clients. Consistently.

For the millions who are not the charismatic guru type – Dov helps them get great projects, with great clients, earning a great income.  After years of selling his manual – How to Systematically and Consistently Attract First-Rate Clients – you can get it free at https://DovGordon.net/frankbria

Transcript

Announcer: The Six to Seven Figures Show. Episode 14. Ready? Let’s hit it.

Announcer 2: Broadcasting from the Valley of the Sun, outside Phoenix, Arizona. This is The 6 to 7 Figures Show. Tired of working so hard and having no time? Take your six-figure practice and turn it to a thriving seven-figure enterprise. And now, your host: author, speaker, mentor and strategist, Frank Bria.

Frank Bria: Everyone, welcome to The 6 to 7 Figures Show. I’m Frank Bria. And today, I’m joined by Dov Gordon, good friend of mine and a consultant who helps other consultants and experts get ideal clients consistently. And look, there’s millions and millions of coaches and consultants out there who are really good at what they do but they’re just not the, I guess you would call it charismatic guru types and they never really want to be, but they love their work. And all they want is a consistent flow of great clients, clients who value their expertise and who value who they are as people and will pay them well for it.

Frank Bria: So, Dov and his small team take a tactic-agnostic approach, which I find really fascinating. We’re going to talk about that. And they help you build a strong strategic foundation to apply it to build a simple client-getting system that’s best for you. Dov’s been a guest on Art of Charm. John Jansen’s Duct Tape Marketing podcast, Jeff Goins’ podcasts, dozens of others, a good friend of mine, head of a mastermind of some of the brightest digital marketers in the space. And you can learn a lot more about Dov’s work at his website, dovgordon.net.

Frank Bria: Dov, thanks for being here. Really appreciate it.

Dov Gordon: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Frank Bria: So, let’s dig into this a little bit. How did you get into working with this particular audience, with this particular problem?

Dov Gordon: Fell into it. I’m definitely one of those people who you’re… I am my market. I was my market. Because I’m not the charismatic guru type. I’m the kind of person who… I’m really good. I’ve got some very valuable skills. Took me a while to hone them.

Dov Gordon: If we’re going back to the early 2000s, I knew I had a lot to offer. I just didn’t understand how to sell it. I didn’t know how to really get clients. For the first seven years, maybe longer, it was a total uphill battle, constant struggle. And, at some point, when I turned the corner, I looked back and I realized that there are a lot of people who are struggling in a very similar way: they love what they do, they’re really good, they’ve got valuable skills, but they’re not interested in being the online celebrity type. They’re not interested in being the guru. All they want is to be doing great work with great people and making a great income.

Dov Gordon: And through the struggle, just through… I seem to have a penchant for suffering through certain things and then distilling the lessons down to where they’re very simple and clear so other people can save some of the pain. We all have to live our lives and I don’t think any of us will ever… there’s nobody who can save us from all of life’s pain. But if you find the right person, that person could certainly lead you through some minefields or help accelerate your progress. And we’ve been fortunate to be that person for many other consultants, coaches, experts, small professional firm owners and so on.

Frank Bria: Yeah. It’s interesting that dynamic that you referred to, that there is a very loud voice in the marketplace, that you need to become this very outspoken, charismatic, always on Instagram taking pictures of you sitting out by the pool all the time in order to make this work. And there aren’t a lot of people sort of countering that voice in the marketplace. Do you think there’s a lot more people with your opinion? Or are you kind of standing alone, shouting this particular message from your corner?

Dov Gordon: I mean, I’m sure there are some people saying a similar message. I can’t think of anybody right now but there are definitely… The other type, the charismatic guru type is much more visible. We all come across them all the time. But I have… I could pull up a quote from a client of ours that just… I was working on something and I… Here, this is I think is how many people do think. What she shared with me before she started working with me was that a lot of the advice out there that she gets, it seems to be geared towards spending every waking moment building social media content. And she’s a consultant. We deal with a lot of corporate… Corporate refugees is how I think about it.

Dov Gordon: So, she spent many years in the corporate world doing all different types of work, business to consumer, business to business, manufacturing, operations. She’s smart, capable, talented person like most of the people that we work with. They’ve got a lot to offer to a lot of different people. And then she decided to quit and do her own thing, leave the corporate bureaucracy behind her. But it’s a different skillset. You discover that a year, a year and a half later. There’s a reason why many of these people have yet to meet and exceed their corporate salary. And that’s what we help them do: meet and exceed their past corporate salary.

Dov Gordon: So, when we first got into a little conversation on LinkedIn actually… So, she said a lot of it seems… oh, a lot of the advice out there she was getting seems to be geared towards spending every waking, building, social media content. And honestly, even though that might work, I would rather stab myself in the face 30 times a day. Smiley face. Everybody wants to be a star and I just honestly find it a bit nauseating and inauthentic. I just really like doing the work that I do and I love getting to know people and working with them and I’m actually relatively charming and funny. But creating scintillating content on process improvement and business analysis and effective teams: despise it. So, that’s what she wrote to me and that led to our conversation. And she joined our You: A Force To Be Reckoned With program and was very happy with it. Great to work with.

Dov Gordon: But the point is I think that probably 80 to 90% of the consultants, coaches, experts and small firms out there belong on the path of mastery rather than on the path of the charismatic guru. I think that’s how I think about it. We find ourselves on that wrong path largely because that’s what’s most visible.

Dov Gordon: I will also say that there are a lot of people… I hope I don’t offend anybody but I probably will. I think there are a lot of people who, they don’t realize it but, on some level, they’re drawn to the charismatic guru types because they like to rub elbows with cool people. They say they want to build their business but a big part of their motivation… And this is my observation and I think that a lot of them may not be so aware of it. Of course, it could be I’m putting thoughts in people’s heads so I’m always open to the possibility. But I do think that a lot of them, it’s very much about being part of the cool kids club more so than anything else.

Dov Gordon: The problem is that the charismatic guru type people, and I have nothing wrong with that. Both paths could work. The question is who are you? What’s your personality? Which path do you belong on? And I think that there are some people who end up on there just because that’s what they see. here’s some people end up on there because they’re drawn by some other hidden motivation they’re not in touch with, like I was talking about. And then there are some people on there who, just like this woman, they start and they don’t even really want to go down that path at all. So, they don’t know what to do.

Dov Gordon: There’s another path. That’s what I think of as the path of mastery. And I think that’s something that 80 maybe 90% of people really belong on.

Frank Bria: Right. Well, look, I think it’s a truth that people are drawn to the charismatic folks and therefore believe that’s the only way to make things work. Because in marketing, oftentimes, the loudest voice, it may not win but it certainly gets ahead of the race for awhile. I mean, look, that’s even true for me. I mean, I’d been started off in the corporate space and been at this for more than 20 years. I don’t even want to say how long I’ve been at this. And when I started in the digital marketing space about seven years ago, I got pulled into tactics and ideas and stuff that, as a corporate consultant, I would never have tried, I would never do it, because it just seemed to work for people. And when you get behind the scenes and you start to see what’s going on, you realize that it’s kind of empty.

Frank Bria: One of the benefits I think of having been now behind the scenes in dozens and dozens of very large coaching organizations and consulting organizations is that a lot of times that loud noise that they’re trying to sell you on isn’t actually the engine behind the machine. It might be the cool facade that gets you in but there’s actually something else going on behind the scenes and-

Dov Gordon: What do you have in mind?

Frank Bria: Yeah, yeah.

Dov Gordon: Like what?

Frank Bria: Well, what’s that?

Dov Gordon: I mean, I’m imagining what you might be referring to but I don’t know if it’s true. So, what do you mean?

Frank Bria: Well, I mean, going back to your point, when you said a lot of people get drawn to this because they want to be in the cool kids club. I’ll tell you on the flip side, I can see the other side of it too, which is there’s a lot of charismatic folks, guru types that sell products that are simply about hanging out with the cool kids. So, when you actually dig into what is this product about, what’s the outcome, what’s the process, what are you trying to create, it’s very empty. There’s not a lot there. And it is driven primarily around sort of fandom, you know?

Dov Gordon: Yeah.

Frank Bria: And [crosstalk 00:10:15] just want to hang out with the right folks. And some people figure it out and they realize, oh, they really do want to serve an audience and they’ve just never been taught how. But I do see this dynamic. So, to observe it from both ends of the spectrum, I think, calls some credence to the theory for sure.

Dov Gordon: There is no easy way. The fact is that succeeding in business and in life in general is hard. And the sooner we accept that as a fact, to paraphrase M. Scott Peck, you know… What is it here? He said… Where is it? I have it here somewhere I think. Unless it’s home. I think it’s home. Right. But I do have the quote. He said that “life is difficult.” This is the opening of his book, the book, The Path Less Traveled. The Road Less Traveled.

Frank Bria: Road Less Traveled.

Dov Gordon: “Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult, once we truly understand and accept it, then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.”

Dov Gordon: And there are so many of us who… we seem to be wired with a desire to believe that it’s easy, that there’s somebody out there, these people out out there, it’s easy. They’re promising it’s easy. They seem to have it all figured out. It seems easy for them. I mean, look at all the pictures they’re in, videos they’re putting up. And everybody seems to want them and throw money at them.

Dov Gordon: The fact is that there are aspects that might be easier for them but there are other things that they’re finding difficult that you might find easy. And vice versa. So, the thing is that anytime we’re expecting it’s going to be easy, it’s an illusion. And the sooner that we disabuse ourselves of that illusion, the sooner we’re actually ready to put in the hard work necessary. And as M. Scott Peck was saying, well, once you’re ready, once you’re expecting hard work, it becomes easier.

Frank Bria: Right. It’s almost a beautiful secular Buddhist sort of philosophy there. What is it? Life is pain kind of.

Dov Gordon: Well, you know, and-

Frank Bria: [crosstalk 00:12:38] then in gets easier when you realize that.

Dov Gordon: And that reminds me of the famous Jim Rohn quote, which I also… I’m working on something so I happen to have this on some slides in front of me. It’s not like I was preparing all this but-

Frank Bria: I’m getting all these quotes all of a sudden.

Dov Gordon: This is what I was working on right before our interview. Jim Rohn says, “You got to learn to work harder on yourself than you do on your business. If you work hard on your business, you’ll make a living. If you work hard on yourself, you can make a fortune.” And the reason why… Why is it so hard to succeed, to really thrive as a successful consultant, coach, expert and so on? Why is it hard?

Dov Gordon: I think it’s hard because you’re… Leadership. Consulting is leadership. Coaching is leadership. Sales is leadership. And essentially, we’re asking people to allow us to lead them from where they are to where they want to be in an important key aspect of life. And you can’t just expect people to follow you because you think you’re good even if you really are good. You have to earn the right to lead. And it’s not enough to even master your craft. You also have to earn the right to lead by mastering the marketing and the sales of your craft. And that’s something that a lot of people are not so comfortable with, especially when all they’ve been led down is the path of the charismatic guru. So, you have to earn the right to lead. You do that by mastering your craft, as well as by mastering marketing and sales. But you don’t have to, like most people…

Dov Gordon: We really distill it down to the critical 10% that gives you 90% of what you want, as I see it. You do not have to do almost everything that everybody says you have to do. But you do have to do something. You have to grow as a person. You have to be willing to be the kind of person that your ideal clients want to follow. And that’s not about doing things. It’s not about posting Instagram videos. It’s not about just being visible on social media. It’s not about any of that. It’s about becoming the one who naturally causes those results, becoming that one that is almost like the natural leader. And I don’t mean you have to be a natural leader but I mean is that you become the one that the people you want to serve wanting to follow. That makes sense?

Frank Bria: Totally. I love that. I love that perspective because it’s completely aligned and parallel with what I see. When I do work, when our team does work with folks who are redesigning a program or creating a high-ticket program, I describe it as a personal transformation experience. I mean, because there’s no way that you get from where you are to where you want to be, 5X, 10X, without transforming as a person. And the whole idea of going out and leading a group of clients in transformation means that transformation has to happen with you first. So, I totally love that.

Frank Bria: I want to take that idea, pivot off of it a little bit to talk about your program in particular. You mentioned the name earlier but I wanted you to tell us what it is again. What’s it called?

Dov Gordon: You: A Force to be Reckoned With. And I can explain that.

Frank Bria: Yeah, what-

Dov Gordon: I mean, it’s not one of these that you instantly understand it from the name.

Frank Bria: Yeah. Give us a bit of a summary. What do you do in that program?

Dov Gordon: It’s really simple. I think of it as the basic bootcamp that every consultant, every coach, every professional service firm owner really should have gone through. Because before you’re worrying about Facebook ads and Instagram and LinkedIn and all that, before you worry… or whatever, or public speaking and so on. Almost nobody gets the foundational pieces right.

Dov Gordon: And you mentioned earlier that we’re tactic-agnostic. That means that we believe that every tactic would work and every tactic could fail. So, the question of well, what should I do to get clients is the wrong question because the answer will be well, you got to do this, you got to do that. Facebook, LinkedIn, podcasting, webinars, evergreen webinar funnels to this and that and so on. And what I noticed after spinning my head and watching a lot of this over the years, many years ago, I realized like, “Wait, every single one of these could work and every single one of these could fail.”

Dov Gordon: So, a better question, instead of what should I do to get clients, a better question is well, if everything works and everything could fail, then when it works, why does it work? And when it fails, why does it fail? And I need to understand that. And I mean, I could just give you the real bottom line on that. But the bottom line is that when what you’re doing works, you’re created a simple, repeatable system, a simple plan to market and sell your expertise that answers the only three questions that your ideal clients ever have. I’ll tell you what that is. But the way I see it, in order for your ideal client to go from total stranger to happily paying you a nice amount of money for your expertise for your help, they only have to answer three questions. And what are those questions?

Dov Gordon: Number one: Is what you’re talking about, should I pay attention? Is it interesting? And it doesn’t matter how they find you. Doesn’t matter if they find you through a cold email you send them. It doesn’t matter if it’s a LinkedIn post or a Facebook group or… Again, it doesn’t matter. They come across you somehow and their brain goes, “Should I pay attention? Is it interesting?”

Dov Gordon: And the first job of your marketing funnel, if you like, your marketing system is, excuse me, to lead them to answer, “Yes, it is interesting.” And if they answer yes, then instantly they have a second question. If they answer no, by the way, no, not interesting, they leave, right? You lose them.

Dov Gordon: Second question is okay, you got me interested but can I trust you? Who are you? Are you for real? Do you actually know your stuff? And do you care or are you just trying to sell me something? So, the second job of your marketing and selling system or funnel is to lead your ideal client to answer yes a second time: Yes, I can trust you. You seem to know your stuff. You’re talking about my issues in a way that I haven’t heard anyone else talk about it before. And you actually seem to care. If so, that leads to the third question, which is okay, you got me interested. I see, I could trust you.

Dov Gordon: Last question: Is what you recommend right for me? Is what you recommend right for me? And the last job, that’s the sales portion of this, is to lead them to conclude yes. And that doesn’t matter if you’re selling one-to-many on a sales page or a webinar or one-to-one. It’s always the same questions. And it doesn’t matter if you’re selling through a vending machine, you’re selling in Cokes, we go through the same questions just a lot faster. If you’re selling military equipment and there are lots of buyers, it just takes longer.

Frank Bria: It takes longer. That’s right.

Dov Gordon: And I want to point one more thought, then I’ll be quiet until you ask… Tell me where you want to go with this. But here’s the thing, is that most people don’t understand what they’re trying to do when they build a marketing funnel. You ask most people well, what’s the purpose of a marketing funnel? Because a funnel is a system. It’s a process. Every system or process needs a purpose. What’s the outcome? So, most people will tell you well, you need a marketing funnel. Why? Well, to fill your pipeline, to get leads, to close deals. And then we nod our heads as if we understand because it makes sense until we stop and think about it.

Dov Gordon: And then we say, “Okay, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. I got to fill my pipeline, I got to get leads and close deals. Okay, how do I do that?” Well, you need to run Facebook ads to your evergreen webinar funnel and… Again, any of these could work, any of these could fail. And you need to rebrand. You need to publish a book. And you need to do a podcast. And you need to be speaking. And I’m like, “What the hell? I mean, I can’t keep up with even one or two of these.”

Dov Gordon: But why does a person feel compelled to do that? Because they don’t understand the real purpose of their marketing funnel, which is you just need one thing in place for each question. You put one thing in place to help them answer yes to each question and you’ll have a consistent flow of ideal clients.

Frank Bria: Yeah. It goes back to the actual purpose of the exercise and if… I mean, this goes back to… I taught math a long time ago. And the same thing, basically the exact same situation. It’s like if someone’s trying to solve an algebra problem, either they know what they’re doing or they’re just following steps. And a lot of people were like, “Just tell me the steps and I’ll get through the problem.” But those people who truly understood what they were doing, manipulating the stuff, were way better at it.

Frank Bria: And I get that some people don’t want to put the effort in to try to understand the psychology of marketing but I think those people, like you pointed out, tend to then get dragged down into a magical set of tactics that they think is going to solve everything, which, again, if you don’t apply it in the right scenario, won’t work anyway. So…

Dov Gordon: Yeah. I mean, simply, it’s a lie to just say marketing, getting clients is easy. It’s also true that it’s not hard. Again, it’s difficult but when you accept that it’s difficult, it becomes easier, like we talked about. It’s a paradox. [crosstalk 00:21:58] true because most of the difficulty, we self-manufacture. Because if you expect it to be easy and it doesn’t work and then you start to think, “Oh my gosh, am I doing the right thing? Am I doing it right? Why does it seem to work for everybody else and not for me? It must be that I don’t know enough.” And we run off and get another book, another course. But that’s not what we need.

Dov Gordon: You need someone to look at what you’re doing and say, “Hit the wall again. Don’t just bounce off like a Roomba vacuum cleaner, run in another direction. Hit the wall, take a chip out of it. Hit the wall, take a chip out of it. Hit the wall, take a chip out of it.” And when you get stuck, [inaudible 00:22:32] No. You make this adjustment, fix it, hit the wall, take a chip out of it. And then one day, the wall crumbles. And finally, you get it, you know?

Frank Bria: Yeah, yeah.

Dov Gordon: So, the point of that analogy is that it’s not enough to have knowledge, to know about all these tactics and so on. You’ve got to have deep understanding. And you’re only going to get deep understanding through experiences. And you asked me about You: A Force to be Reckoned With. It’s four weeks where we focus on only the critical 10% that makes you look brilliant 90% of the time. Only the critical percent, 10%, that gives you 90% of what you want.

Dov Gordon: It’s not about more training, more information. It’s about taking you by the hand. We have incredible one-on-one attention within a small group. Nobody else does this. Maybe you do, I don’t know. But no one else does this. Because I run a small boutique firm. I’m not tempted, I don’t have the desire to build multi seven-figures and scale and build a coaching factory, which nothing wrong with that if someone’s living up to what they say. But as you’ve seen, it doesn’t always happen that way.

Frank Bria: Well, when you use the phrase coaching factory, it already sort of… it’s not the right way to do things.

Dov Gordon: Look, there’s a lot in the industry, as you well know and many listening to this might know as well, there’s a lot of the industry that’s very focused on how can we make it easier for the supplier, for the coach, how can we leverage and scale and so on. But the fact is if we work backwards, if you’re trying to teach somebody a sophisticated set of skills, the best thing is one-on-one or one-on-one attention in a small group. If I want to learn tennis, I could read a book. It’s not gonna teach me tennis. Or golf. But the best thing is to have somebody looking at my swing and giving me feedback. And that’s what we do. Because otherwise, you could sell a big course, a big program, call it coaching and then say, “If you have questions, get on this more information webinar. And then if you have questions, type them in the box. Or ask us or get on these call hours or whatever.”

Dov Gordon: People need someone to be on top of them, not because they need babysitting but because they’re learning a new nuanced set of skills that they’re not used to. They’re not used to the ways of thinking.

Frank Bria: Yeah. What you’re describing is mentorship and accountability. And that’s a big thing for me. We teach it all the time. You’ve got to have three things. You got to have skills, accountability and mentorship. If you don’t have all three, you’re never going to create transformation or get results for people. There’s lots of different ways to do accountability and mentorship but most people just don’t do it at all.

Frank Bria: So, a lot of people think that scale equals group coaching and that’s just not true. Group coaching, in and of itself, only provides part of the formula but it doesn’t provide all of the formula. And so, yeah, you need more. You need more than that. You can’t just throw everyone and say, “Hey, a hundred of me and my closest friends are going to get on a call. And maybe if you’re lucky, this time we’ll get to your question.” It doesn’t work that way.

Dov Gordon: Absolutely not, no.

Frank Bria: Okay. So, you’re structured in a small group environment. You got a lot of intimate attention. It’s four weeks. And what’s kind of the outcome? When they’re done, what your clients… What do they express that they have that they didn’t have before?

Dov Gordon: So, most people have come to us… What’s missing? What’s missing is that, in some cases, they’re very talented, they have skills that can be applied in many different situations, and they’re just not so clear. Everybody knows you need to pick a niche but it’s not so easy for many people. So, some people, they’re at the stage where they need to figure out who am I even selling this to? I’ve had a client like this, a client like that, a client like that. Who am I going after? And then how do I find them?

Dov Gordon: And it’s one thing when I’m working with my old network that I’ve built up in the corporate world, where if I say something, they already know me, they trust me to some degree or they know me or they heard of me. So, they’ll listen and they get it. But how do I reach out to people who don’t know, who haven’t heard of me without becoming a content marketing machine, which most people are not really interested in-

Frank Bria: Your clients don’t want to go in that direction, right?

Dov Gordon: Yeah. For the most part, our clients are talented, even world-class, at what they do. Highly-skilled, even world-class at some kind of valuable skill. And they’re looking… they just want to do great work with great clients and make a great income, like we said before. And they’re not interested in doing all those things. They just want to do… I want the shortest path to the client.

Dov Gordon: And what you need is you need to be clearer about who that client is. And the way most people figure that out, or try to figure that out, leaves them more confused than not. We’ve had people, I can… one of mine. I had someone who came to work with me after spending $10,000 with a consultant who spent two days with them on an avatar exercise. The typical avatar exercise just takes you down a rabbit hole. I don’t need to know that my ideal client is between 35 and 55, has a wife and two kids or a husband and whatever and a dog and a cat and likes this and reads those blog. You don’t need to know most of that. Look, everything in its right time. Everything has a time and a place.

Dov Gordon: That’s another thing, is I’d probably make a lot more money if I was very absolute about things. Oh, this is the way to do it. But I really believe in understanding how to think. I believe that people need to learn, not the answer to the question of what should I do? People need to learn the answer of how should I think or like what… That doesn’t sound the way I meant to say it because that sounds like I’m telling people how to think. No. I want to teach people how to think.

Frank Bria: Well, it’s complex-decision making, right?

Dov Gordon: Exactly.

Frank Bria: It’s decision-making.

Dov Gordon: You need to learn how to think at a higher level. If you want to have a breakthrough, you want to get a better result, you need to change, evolve how you think, how you feel, your emotional mastery, and how you work, what you actually do on a day-to-day basis. And that’s what we do. It’s a real working on your self. Like the Jim Rowe said: Work harder on yourself. It’s not about like, “Oh, I got to beat myself and… ” No. Really, it’s about getting crystal clear about what are the few things that, if I work on, in terms of mental toughness, mindset, how to think, think big, open up my mind to what’s possible and how to get there and learn and master some real skills and build my emotional resilience, my…

Dov Gordon: A big thing for many, including myself, I had to work on this, I’m still working on it, all the time really, but I have a tendency, I think most of us do, to want to avoid pain. And if we think about oh… And we start worrying about the future oh, I’m worried this is going to happen and that would really be painful. I might run out of money. A lot of people tell me like… A lot of our clients, their concern is I’m afraid I’m going to run out of money before I could really make this business work. We help them with that.

Dov Gordon: Anyway, I don’t remember exactly what you asked me but hopefully this was helpful.

Frank Bria: Yeah, no, it was good. We were going down the road of trying to figure out exactly what the support infrastructure and mechanisms are. So, you’re focusing on very transformational elements. And it sounds like your clients end up at the end with a very clear picture about what they’re going to do and how they’re going to go about doing that-

Dov Gordon: Right. I remember where we were now.

Frank Bria: … without worrying about digging into these overly complex or maybe advanced sort of marketing tactician kinds of things. What I love about that perspective, by the way, is that so much stuff out there, and I’ve actually heard other marketers say this, that gets taught about marketing, you look at it and you say… And it looks exciting. It looks amazing. It looks like an amazing tactic. But it would never work on anyone who didn’t have an email list of 100,000 people or more. It is so ticky-tacky, dialing in the knobs, I talk about it as working on the optimization level, that it’s completely useless for most people anyway.

Frank Bria: I spent a number of years at Capital One, looking at the marketing of a credit card company who sends out millions and millions of advertisements every week. And they test 168 different variables before they send something out mass market. And a lot of what I see in the marketing tactician space feels like a 168-variable optimization, which is the wrong thing most people… Like 99.9% of business owners [crosstalk 00:31:27] need to be worrying about that kind of stuff at all.

Dov Gordon: When’s the best time to send an email? When’s the best time to hold a webinar? For 98% of the people, the answer is: Well, send the email now and schedule the webinar as soon as you can get it ready. And then just do it again, you know?

Frank Bria: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, look, we’re coming up on time. I know you’ve got some other things to do. Appreciate you taking the time. But where can the listeners find out a little bit more about you, get to know kind of more of the prospective that we’ve talked about?

Dov Gordon: So, I want to share something that I think is… I know is very valuable. For five years, I sold what I call my manual. It’s called How to Systematically and Consistently Attract First-Rate Clients. We sold that for $97 for five years. There’s zero fluff. I did not write this to give it away. It’s about 90 pages, zero fluff. And I’d like to give that away.

Dov Gordon: So, people can get a free copy at dovgordon.net/frankbria. That’s D-O-V-G-O-R-D-O-N.N-E-T .net/frankbria. B-R-I-A. That’s in your honor, Frank, in case you were wondering.

Frank Bria: I appreciate that. And the link’s right here below so people can just click on that as well. But if they’re listening to the audio offline, then they can just remember that link. And you’ve made it very easy to do. I’ve actually read that manual so I can tell you first-hand there is no fluff in that. It is good stuff. Very good stuff.

Dov Gordon: And I just remembered where I was going before because you had asked me like what do we accomplish? Do we have one more minute?

Frank Bria: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Dov Gordon: So, it’s really, like I said, it’s like the basic boot camp. So, we really got to get clear about first, who’s the ideal client. And then a simple message so that when people hear the message, it resonates with them. And then you need to be able to present, once they get your attention and interest, can I trust you? You need to present your ideas because now you’re going to have a chance. We haven’t even gotten to the tactics of getting in front of them yet but that’s a part of it too. And then you need to present your ideas in a way that, when they hear you talk, they can instantly think to themselves, “No one has ever talked to me like this before. No one has ever presented it. This is different.” Because people are looking for different.

Dov Gordon: If you sound like everybody else, they think, “Oh, I tried all those other… You sound like everyone else. They couldn’t help me. You probably can’t either.” So, that’s a big component, is taking what you know and presenting it in a simple way. And we help you do that really rather quickly. And then the last thing we’re helping you do is create a simple kind of like a daily operating system but for marketing and sales so that you have a simple plan. And, again, this is like bootcamp.

Dov Gordon: Now, once you’ve got this and you’re running it and you’re putting in your 60, 90 minutes a day on the basics, systematizing what used to happen from a referral here, a phone call there, an email there, then you start to have a simple, repeatable marketing and selling system and consistent flow of clients. And that’s the goal. And that’s what happens within four weeks.

Dov Gordon: We also then provide ongoing support for the next 12 months. You can ask us any questions as well because the fact is that people need… You’re going to go out there in the real world and I don’t want you to be on your own. There are going to be questions. So, we have continued access to me and my support coach, who, by the way, has been with me for seven years. It’s not somebody who’s just, you know, I was just hiring as a way of offloading the work. Someone who really knows their stuff. Okay. That was at least a minute, right?

Frank Bria: No, that’s good. And I appreciate you digging into that because the daily plan piece, that’s a real gem. I think, again, going back to the conversation we’ve had this whole time, which is so many people are looking for this easy thing to set-it-and-forget-it kind of approach to marketing. And fundamentally, when you’re starting out, and even for a very long time afterwards, you are in a daily engagement of doing the kinds of things that would attract attention. So, that’s great. So, we’ve got essentially, understanding who it is you’re talking to, really solid messaging, and a daily operating system for getting that going, and then ongoing support, which, again, I agree with you, every… What is it Mike Tyson said? Everyone’s got a plan until they get punched in the face. So, you have the great theory out of four weeks and then finally, when you start dealing with that on a daily basis, questions [crosstalk 00:35:55] so…

Dov Gordon: Yeah. And unfortunately, we get a lot of people who have spent years of their life and untold thousands of dollar going after the other tactical things, only to kind of come and kind of stumble in the doorway bloodied. But we clean them up and we help them get really focused and say, “Look, now that you’re no longer caught by the illusion, let’s turn this into a real business.” And that’s what it is.

Frank Bria: Solid. So, four weeks. The name, again, of the program is…

Dov Gordon: You: A Force to be Reckoned With. Dovgordon.net/force.

Frank Bria: You: A Force to be Reckoned With. Great. That sounds great. And yeah, click on the link here: dovgordon.net/frankbria in order to get the manual, which really is I mean-

Dov Gordon: It is good.

Frank Bria: $97 easily could have… That’s a perfectly-

Dov Gordon: I’ll be open. The reason we started giving it away was because I was getting people going through that and saying, “Wow, this is really good.” And some people then’d come and say, “Hey, can I work with you to build this?” Because it’s really solid, simple, clear. And at some point, I realized if we give this away, we’ll reach more people and many more people will get free help from it but there will also be more people who want to work with us. So, that’s my secret motive.

Frank Bria: That’s amazing. All right. Well, Dov, thanks so much for spending time with us. Really appreciate it. Really insightful. I love you’re kind of a contrarian in this area, which I love. I love talking about that stuff. And appreciate your time.

Dov Gordon: Thank you for [crosstalk 00:37:36].

Frank Bria: Thanks so much for the gift to the audience. And for everyone who’s been listening, thanks so much for joining us on The 6 to 7 Figure Show. And we will be with you next time. All right. See you soon.